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Thursday, March 17, 2005
Lucky Plaza and digital cameras
You gotta love shopping in Singapore at Lucky Plaza. There is about a million camera shops, all with hawkers sidling up to you asking, "Hey, what you want? You come take a look?". And if you even pause or acknowledge their existence, you are toast. This is the be-all-end-all of car sales men. You want to talk shady? It is here.
You probably should figure on starting at around 60% of what they originally tell you their price is and go from there (never go over 75% or you are probably getting screwed). And they all have the big fat number solar calculators and that is what they put the price on and then hand it to you. So you can figure the price in your native currency. Word to the wise, don't even use it. If you do, you are immediately targeted. If you don't know exactly what you want to pay for something in native Sing, then you don't belong here. At all. And don't hesitate or feel bad about just turning around and walking out of the store mid-sentence. Trust me, you will probably have to be shouted down in the street after walking out a couple times if you want to get a reasonable deal.
And do NOT stray from what you intend to buy. Lucky Plaza is NO PLACE to go window shopping. Know what you want BEFORE you go there, and know what you want to pay (again, in Sing). They will ask you what you want to pay...start about 10% BELOW what you will settle for, and make sure you are talking Sing. They will try to get you up as high as they can, and then typically will try to convince you that you really should get something else. Maybe it only costs a little more. Pretty soon, you are out of your research league, and you can easily be trapped into negotiating on things you have no idea of the going price, quality or what they are making on the deal. If you get trapped into talking anything BUT Sing, they will pull all sorts of various exchange rates on you. Remember, you are paying for it ultimately in Sing. Use Visa or Master Card so you get good warranty, protection and best exchange rate or Sing cash.
Next, don't let them try to pull the old "plus tax" crap. Oh, they'll try to explain that you get it back at the airport when you leave. Know what you want to pay for it, out the door. Regardless of what taxes, etc. they have to pay.
One other thing, is that sometimes you can wiggle on the price a little if you buy accessories with the camera. So know EVERYTHING you want, and what the total price is (IN SING, again). Be careful, and really make sure it is a semi-good quality, because there is a lot of variation, and they will go try to give you something that is far below what you would normally get. Test them a little, when they go pick up whatever additional items you are interested in, and ask about something similar. If they don't seem to want to make the deal with a different accessory, it is probably because you are getting something that is low quality that they picked to increase their margins (normally from Taiwan or China).
Finally, make sure you get a box and all the original stuff from them. Most items (electronics) carry a full warranty, if it is a good brand. They may try to sell you an "international" warranty for another 5-10%. This is just them trying to get margin back. Use your credit card, which normally doubles the manufacturer's warranty and be certain that there is a warranty card in the box.
So, I had decided to try to go find a Canon Powershot A520 4.0M pixel camera. I'd done my research and liked the camera. I also knew it was around $270 in the US online. Plus, I wanted a 1GB 60x Secure Digital flash card (and maybe a cheap bag too). Figured around $380 would be a pretty good deal, total, which translated roughly to $615 Singapore at this time, for everything. I would probably pay up to $625.Ok. Head out, down the elevator, on the MRT after getting a day travel card (electronic card that you put value on good for just that day to travel on the MRT from electronic vending machines). Get off at Orchard Street, take the escalator up to Scotts Street side (Orchard street is too busy to cross, so you want to be sure to walk under the street to the Scott Street side).
Lucky Plaza is just down the walk. Head in. Move back a little rather than going into the first store. Most stores at the front of the street pay higher price for location, and have to gouge you more. The ones at the back are probably too hungry and may be a little TOO shady. Act like I'm browsing, without a specific goal in mind. Here comes one.
"You look for something, Sir?"
"No, just sort of looking. Are those Canons there? Can I see that one (point to A520)?"
"Sure thing! Very nice camera. $699."
types on calculator and hands it to you
shake my head while looking at the camera...Ignoring the calculator
"This is a 4.0M pixel? What media does it use?"
obviously already knowing all the answers...Remember this isn't place to "learn" anything or shop
"Oh, sure. 4.0M pixel. Uses Compact Flash!"
nod. Casually fiddle with it and open flash media door exposing the secure digital media.
"Oh, what is this? That is pretty small."
"Oh, yes...that one take both compact flash and new memory called secure digital. Compact Flash is much better."
nod like you just learned something...it doesn't, it only uses SD.
"What size memory card does it come with?"
"Oh, it come with 16MB secure digital card. You want compact flash 256MB. That only cost you $50 more."
more typing on calculator, and again holds it out...I ignore
"Huh...that seems like a lot. I was thinking more like 1GB of that secure digital stuff you were talking about. Sort of like that one (point out 60x 1GB SD card). How much for all that."
"How much you want to pay? Where you from?"
"Oh, I'm from the US. How does $600 sound?"
"$600 US?"
"No. $600 Sing."
types on calculator a bit
"How you pay?"
"Credit card. Master card."
he shakes his head and types more
"How about this? $450 US?"
shake my head
"No. Want around $600 Sing."
types more. talks Malaysian to another guy, back and forth. types more on calc.
"$675. Best price. Just this one time. I won't sell you more than one for that. I like you. No good later. You here on ship?"
I shake my head and looked sad and say, no just here on business. At this point I think he is beginning to suspect I'm from the Navy and just in port and a little more experienced with foreign towns than I originally let on. I mumble and sort of look around like I'm loosing interest. Begin to turn around and walk out. I mumble thanks.
"Sir! Sir! How much you want to pay? This a great price!"
pause a little...
"Here...come, come! sit."
I hesitate and return back into the store
"How you like this? You want realy good camera? I show you good one. You no want that other one. It garbage."
"No...no...I really want the Canon. Read good things about it."
"Oh? No, this one is very good camera. How about this? DVD quality! This is 6.6Mega-pixel..."
"No, I don't need that much."
"This for you?"
"Yes. Me and my wife."
Ok, let me see what I can do."
more typing
"Here. This best I can do. You live here?"
"No, US."
"Then you get back tax. This better than you want. I'm making less this way, but for you I will do. You get tax back at airport. $322 US!"
"You mean you are willing to sell it to me for $322 US with the memory card? New, in a box?"
"Sure, see..."
types a bunch of stuff, multiplies, divides, subtracts and mods by the middle of the month
"Ok. $322 US."
"Sure, sir...you give me card."
goes off to ring it up. comes back, with total of $699
"No. That isn't what we said."
looks hurt and confused.
"Sir, yes. $699, divided by 1.8 exchange rate (it is 1.62 right now, most places), minus the tax of 17%, that is $322."
Take my card back off the counter and tear up the charge slip as he stares with wide eyes
"No. I said I wanted to pay you $600 Sing. Not $699."
begin to walk out
"Wait. You can't tear that up! It is illegal."
I stop
"What's illegal? That is my charge card, and my charge slip with an amount that I didn't authorize you to charge."
"I'm not messing around here. This is wrong. You can't tear up. You can do that in US, punch me in the face and leave, but not here. I'll call police."
turn all the way around now, as he motions some older guy over
"Fine. Lets call them. I'd like to get this straightened out too."
"No, please give me card. I have to void out the sale."
he turns to older guy and talks in quick Malay for a while back and forth. he points, says stuff and the older guy is shaking his head. finally he leaves, and I'm left dealing with the older guy.
"Why do you need my card? You have the authorization, account number and amount all right there on the slip."
"I can't use that now. You tore it up. That very bad. You get in big trouble for that. I must have card. Call bank and void sale."
I fork over the card. He calls bank, very nice and quiet on phone now. Spends a while talking about how I buy something, then don't like price so now want to back out and gives card number, and authorization for charge. Hangs up finally after grunting and nodding.
"We must wait for them to call back."
"Call back for what?"
"They checking right now. Must wait. You know, you look at this other camera. It is very good. Much better than that one. I want to make this right."
"No, I wanted that other one for $600."
he tries to show me a couple more and make his sales pitch, and I shake it off, plus, I've now slid my card back off the counter and returned it to my wallet while he was trying to push a different camera to me.
"How long is this going to take? I need to be somewhere in about 10 minutes."
"Not long. Be very quick now."
he fidgets, obviously just pissed off at me and making me wait. I know damn well he can manually reverse the charges all without my card. I stand up and look around a little.
"Well, you have the number and everything there. I'm going to leave."
"No...no. I think I can do now."
now, suddenly, he divinely knows what to do, asks for my card back, and processes the number. He comes back all mad
"here...you want to tear this one up too?"
I just put my card back in my wallet and walk out.
I did try one other place too, and after agreeing to $620 total (similar dance), he takes my card and says he has to go in the back room to get it out of stock (there are 2 boxes of them sitting behind the counter..guess those are just for display). I think he finally realized this wasn't a good deal. He is gone for long time. Finally comes back (without a box or camera) and tries to add on tax of $45 this time. Plus, he is trying to sell me an international warranty, because this one only comes with one for Singapore. I tell him that is fine. I'll just take it for the $620. It gets ugly again, but I've managed to get my card back from one of the other guys in the place while he was in the back "looking" for the stock. I shake my head and turn around and start to walk out. They don't say a word or call after me...guess that's how you know if it is a good deal or not.
Ultimately, I didn't get the camera, but I had an adventure. Plus, when I got back to the Hotel, and looked up the camera again on a place that I know doesn't bait and switch or say it is out of stock when you try to order it without a lot of expensive accessories, it was down to $265. Maybe I'll try again Saturday, if I feel up to it.
Grin. Ahhh...Lucky Plaza. Oh, well, last time I was here, I almost managed to get pinned down by some of the Muslim cafeteria staff for crossing the line with pork and stuff from the Chinese side...grin.
Comments:
The next weekend, while in Chinatown, I also stopped in a couple of the electronic stores in the various plazas. While these weren't quite as shady as the ones from Lucky Plaza, they were pretty close.
One guy obviously didn't know his prices, because he told me $520 for the combination of the camera and 1GB SD card. I confirmed it a couple times, and say "OK". He scurried off to get it (from God knows where). He finally came back (after a long time) and tried to sell me some additional lenses for it. I looked, and then just decided on the original. Finally, he says that he doesn't have any in stock (ahh...he finally figured out how badly he screwed up on the price). I say, well, what about this one (figuring I'd even take a floor model for that price). He says no. That doesn't have box, disks, cables, or anything. Illegal for him to sell it to me (riiiight). He says, come back Monday, he have others. I say, so are you out of stock on this camera completely, or just for $500? He takes everything back and ignores me like I'm not even there. Apparently he is done with me.
Another place also quoted very wrong price (though without the 1GB card) and was offering to throw a 128MB in with the camera and a case for $525 (Ok...for you sir, since it is first sale of the day...$500). I said OK. Again, he is gone and talking to manager. He finally came back and tries to explain that he thought a sale was on still for that camera, but it is over. $525 for camera (no bag or 128MB card). I say no..and he pulls out the tax thing...I just walk out.
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One guy obviously didn't know his prices, because he told me $520 for the combination of the camera and 1GB SD card. I confirmed it a couple times, and say "OK". He scurried off to get it (from God knows where). He finally came back (after a long time) and tried to sell me some additional lenses for it. I looked, and then just decided on the original. Finally, he says that he doesn't have any in stock (ahh...he finally figured out how badly he screwed up on the price). I say, well, what about this one (figuring I'd even take a floor model for that price). He says no. That doesn't have box, disks, cables, or anything. Illegal for him to sell it to me (riiiight). He says, come back Monday, he have others. I say, so are you out of stock on this camera completely, or just for $500? He takes everything back and ignores me like I'm not even there. Apparently he is done with me.
Another place also quoted very wrong price (though without the 1GB card) and was offering to throw a 128MB in with the camera and a case for $525 (Ok...for you sir, since it is first sale of the day...$500). I said OK. Again, he is gone and talking to manager. He finally came back and tries to explain that he thought a sale was on still for that camera, but it is over. $525 for camera (no bag or 128MB card). I say no..and he pulls out the tax thing...I just walk out.
